Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Received: from po5.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Wed, 7 Sep 88 22:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 7 Sep 88 22:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl; Wed, 7 Sep 88 22:04:54 EDT Received: by angband.s1.gov id AA03658; Wed, 7 Sep 88 19:06:39 PDT id AA03658; Wed, 7 Sep 88 19:06:39 PDT Date: Wed, 7 Sep 88 19:06:39 PDT From: Ted Anderson Message-Id: <8809080206.AA03658@angband.s1.gov> To: Space+@andrew.cmu.edu Reply-To: Space+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: SPACE Digest V8 #353 SPACE Digest Volume 8 : Issue 353 Today's Topics: NASA radio programs for September (Forwarded) Re: Initials for the Uninitiated Re: Automated vs. personned spacecraft new list (aviation-theory) Re: Where's Dani Re: plutonium Re: Seti NASA Select New mailing list: space-tech Re: 95% vs. 99.9% reliability Re: Solar Sails The sun as a trashcan (was : Plutonium) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 Aug 88 02:00:40 GMT From: yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) Subject: NASA radio programs for September (Forwarded) FROM: Debbie Rivera The September radio programs, the "Space Story & Frontiers" will be aired on NASA Select, Mon. Aug. 29th from 1-1:30 p.m. Eastern. This month's shows feature: Analyzing the Greenhouse Effect Ichitiaque Rasool, Hdqts. The Biosphere II Project Carl Hodges, Univ. of Arizona The NASA Arctic Boundary Layer Experiment Robert Harris, LaRC STS-26 The Space Shuttle Returns Astronauts Rick Hauck and Mike Lounge ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 88 17:17:46 GMT From: attcan!utzoo!henry@uunet.uu.net (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Initials for the Uninitiated In article <95@taux02.UUCP> amos@taux02.UUCP (Amos Shapir) writes: >Would it be too much to ask of posters in this group not to assume >everybody understands the initials they use? ... >... all I ask is that future posters use >the full text of the initials, at least the first time they are >mentioned. The first time I mentioned those various sets of initials was (for most of them, anyway) several years ago, at which time I did supply the full expansion. :-) I try to include the expansions occasionally. But I'm afraid that if you want to read the AW&ST summaries, you're going to have to get used to it. The things are rather a chore to type up; using a terse, telegraphic style with relatively-infrequent longer explanations shortens the task noticeably. Given that this is an unpaid volunteer effort, the style is not going to change. -- Intel CPUs are not defective, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology they just act that way. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 26 Aug 88 03:37:54 GMT From: tektronix!reed!douglas@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (P Douglas Reeder) Subject: Re: Automated vs. personned spacecraft Another work of fiction on the subject is the short story "Becalmed in Hell" by Larry Niven, my favorite author. There is a short story followup to "The Ship Who Sang" in Anne McCaffrey's collection "Get Off The Unicorn". McCaffrey is my other favorite author. -- Doug Reeder USENET: ...!tektronix!reed!douglas 10 Cyclopedia Square from BITNET: douglas@reed.UUCP Terminus City from ARPA: tektronix!reed!douglas@berkley Terminus,The Foundation Box 502 Reed College,Portland,OR 97202 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Aug 88 08:37:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Ted Anderson X-Andrew-Message-Size: 2279+0 Subject: new list (aviation-theory) Cc: ROB@BGERUG51.BITNET New Special Interest Group Aviation-Theory ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Originated from the AVIATION list, a new list has been created a short time ago. The new list, called AVIATION-THEORY, is meant to be for scientific discussions on Aeronautical and Space Technology Engineering topics. Space Technology and Aeronautical Engineering have always been closely related. I would like to point out that the new list is, despite the name AVIATION-THEORY, is meant for both aeronautical and space technology engineering topics, so that is AEROSPACE ENGINEERING. Apart from discussions between subscribers also calls for papers, announcements for seminars, etc. can be sent to the list, because it should become a real scientific list, similar to the AI-list, the Connectionists list etc. Topics open for discussion are: Calls for papers Aerodynamics Aircraft Structures Anouncements seminars Flight Mechanics Aircraft Materials Books to be published Stability and Control Thermal Control Re-entry aerodynamics Propulsion and others. At the moment we are looking for someone to start a USENET bulletin board for this new list. But, because we have not found someone to guide the USENET side, all messages coming from USENET should be sent to the special adress mentioned below. People who want to subscribe the new list, can send a message to Chris Maeda (address below). For any questions, remarks, etc. please mail me. Rob A. Vingerhoeds ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Moderator: Rob A. Vingerhoeds, Ghent State University, Automatic Control Laboratory ROB@BGERUG51.BITNET ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To be added to/deleted from/corrections made to list, send message to: AVIATION-THEORY-REQUEST@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU Chris Maeda, MIT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All messages should be sent to: AVIATION-THEORY@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (from BITNET / INTERNET) AVIATION-THEORY-IN@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (from USENET) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: 26 Aug 88 17:10:55 GMT From: fluke!ssc-vax!eder@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Dani Eder) Subject: Re: Where's Dani In article <285@telesoft.UUCP>, roger@telesoft.UUCP (Roger Arnold @prodigal) writes: > the hoi polloi, and, BTW, announce which camp YOU're in). Looked > kind of like a giant Apollo capsule. Where's Dani? > > - Roger Arnold ..ucsd!telesoft!roger I finally got a net connection back. The Space Station program at Boeing outgrew the building I was in. We now occupy a brand {_new building called the "Trade Zone Center", which we call the Twilight Zone for numerous reasons. (when I say "we" I refer to the group I work in, the Program is now spread over three locations in the Marshall Space Flight Center area.) I'll be at the Worldcon in New Orleans over Labor Day weekend. I look forward to seeing some of you sci.space folks there. D. -- Dani Eder / Boeing / Space Station Program / uw-beaver!ssc-vax!eder (205)461-2606(w) (205)461-7801(h) 1075 Dockside Drive #905 Huntsville, AL 35824 34 40 N latitude 86 40 W longitude +100m altitude, Earth ------------------------------ Date: 26 Aug 88 15:36:29 GMT From: iscuva!jimk@uunet.uu.net (Jim Kendall) Subject: Re: plutonium In article <880825130944.0000072C.ABAY.AA@Virginia> pcp2g@CDC.ACC.VIRGINIA.EDU (=3545***) writes: >Someone wrote in suggesting that we dump plutonium into the sun and kill >two birds with one stone:[] >I see two problems: I'll add a third; the likelyhood of a mishap during launch. Imagine a rocket full of Pt exploding over Florida............ Cheers! -- Jim Kendall Send all prank mail My boss is in full jimk@iscuva.ISCS.COM to: /dev/null agreement with all uunet!iscuva!jimk of my opinions.... ------------------------------ Date: 25 Aug 88 11:09:52 GMT From: mcvax!ukc!reading!cf-cm!cybaswan!iiit-sh@uunet.uu.net (Steve Hosgood) Subject: Re: Seti I've been reading the discussions about SETI, the silence we seem to be receiving, etc. It seems, however, that we're up against some pretty stiff problems dealing with ETs, partly technological and partly due to the fact that we may not be able to comprehend an ET's message if we *did* receive such a thing. Wouldn't it be sensible to spend some effort looking nearer to home? The seas contain several species of (presumed) intelligent life, yet I don't know of any sucess at communicating with them short of training dolphins to poke messages into computers on giant keyboards! This can hardly be regarded as communicating with the creatures can it? I would suggest that we have little chance at dealing with ETs until we can talk to the other intelligent life on *this* planet. Comments, anyone? ------------------------------ Date: 26 Aug 88 19:51:54 GMT From: att!mtuxo!mtgzy!rlf@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (r.l.fletcher) Subject: NASA Select I have seen repeated references to NASA Select, can someone please explain what it is and how do I get it? Thanks, Ron Fletcher AT&T Bell Laboratories Middletown NJ ------------------------------ Date: 27 Aug 88 03:51:02 GMT From: DAISY.LEARNING.CS.CMU.EDU!mnr@pt.cs.cmu.edu (Marc Ringuette) Subject: New mailing list: space-tech ============= "Space-tech" will be a small technical mailing list. We will discuss new concepts for space development. We are interested in taking ambitious new ideas, bouncing them around the net, and working out the details. Topics will include solar sails, orbiting tethers, lunar manufacturing, robotics, and anything that would benefit from some technical brainstorming. We won't shy away from ideas that seem too difficult to implement right now, as long as we can have a basis for working out whether or not they can really work. We will not discuss politics at all. We welcome everyone to the group, with one provision: you should be willing to sit down with a paper and pencil and try to work out some details. We don't mean to discourage asking questions, but this isn't intended as a "chat off the top of your head" list. We will also provide a digested list for those who prefer less mail volume and a more organized discussion. To join the list, send your name and net address to: space-tech-request@cs.cmu.edu We'd also appreciate hearing about your background and interests. Please specify whether you want the normal list or the digested list. ================= The organizers: Marc Ringuette (mnr@cs.cmu.edu) I am a CS PhD student at Carnegie-Mellon in Pittsburgh. I am currently participating in the CMU Mars Rover project, doing software for a walking rover prototype. My interests include AI, robotics, amateur physics, orbiting tethers, and small business applications of research. Steve Abrams (sedspace@doc.cc.utexas.edu) I am a Physics PhD student at the University of Texas at Austin. I am currently a member of the National Executive Board of the Students for the Exploration and Devlopment of Space (SEDS). My interests include solar sails, electro-dynamic tethers for power generation, space education, mission design, and gravitational radiation observatories. ================= -- Marc Ringuette CMU Computer Science ------------------------------ Date: 26 Aug 88 18:07:43 GMT From: att!alberta!mnetor!utzoo!henry@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: 95% vs. 99.9% reliability In article <1366@eos.UUCP> eugene@eos.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes: >Yaw vol, mein herr, vhere do you vant us to line up? Das thou plan to >pull the trigger, thein self? Line up in vront of der nozzle of der next SRB tezt. I schall push der button myzelf iff nezezzary. If du canst not liff honorably, putting der interests ovf your profession and your country -- not to mention a zertain zeven aztronauts -- ahead of zose of your company und your career, at leazt you can die honorably vhen your venality und cowvardice cauze disaster! >No one has brought up loss of a second craft if the first problem had not >be isolated... If one evaluates the loss of another orbiter as absolutely unacceptable, then one must ground the entire fleet permanently. >... Also what ever happened to making making space safe >for every one [i.e., eventually doing away with astronaut requirements] >which everyone was interested for such a time? I'd be willing to settle for making space only mildly dangerous for everyone. You don't need to meet astronaut requirements to be able to look at the risk and say "yes, this is worth taking". >Oh! Am I on the wrong side of the Pacific? Well, the way the US space program is going lately, it's starting to look like all of us in North America are on the wrong side of some ocean or other... -- Intel CPUs are not defective, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology they just act that way. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 27 Aug 88 08:55:14 GMT From: tektronix!reed!douglas@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (P Douglas Reeder) Subject: Re: Solar Sails One way to consider the redshift problem is to perform the following thought experiment: Stand in front of a mirror. Move the mirror forward and back. The image of you (the photons bouncing off your surface) appears twice as far away as mirror. When you move the mirror away at velocity v, your image move away at an apparant velocity of 2v, at slow velocities. Now move the mirror away at a relativistic speed (I TOLD you it was a thought expertiment!) Your image move away from you at a higher relativistic speed. Since it it moving at relativists speed, it appears redshifted. Replace yourself with the sun and the mirror with a solar sail. -- Doug Reeder USENET: ...!tektronix!reed!douglas 10 Cyclopedia Square from BITNET: douglas@reed.UUCP Terminus City from ARPA: tektronix!reed!douglas@berkley Terminus,The Foundation Box 502 Reed College,Portland,OR 97202 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Aug 88 14:04:33 GMT From: mcvax!unido!tub!tmpmbx!netmbx!alderaan@uunet.uu.net (Thomas Cervera) Subject: The sun as a trashcan (was : Plutonium) This is a reply to a posting someone left here some hours before (lost the origional message, sorry) He said, he heard from one of his friends (dunno exactly), that it would be better to dump all the dangerous Plutonium into the sun to 'catch two birds with only one stone'. On one hand, his friend said, you would get rid of all the Pt on Earth in a clean way, on the other hand, you could send out some signs of live (Pt isn't normal in the Sun's spectrum, I guess) because of emissions caused by ionisized Pt. He replied, that it wouldn't be possible to leave terrestial orbit (if I understood right), because spacecrafts would be too slow to do the job, and all the Pt wouldn't be enough to send recognizable signals. In my eyes the idea to dump Plutonium into the sun could become reality. If we can send spacecrafts to the inner planets of our solar system, I think, it must be possible to let something like that crash into the sun, or not ? But if it's possible, why don't we send all our dangerous (radioactive) garbage to the sun ? Here in Germany, they don't know where to go with it. At this time, U.S.A. and USSR destroy their expensive short range missles 'cause they are (thankgod !) no longer needed to respond the 'threat from the other side'. Why don't they modify them to be able to leave the earth's gravity field ? The payload could be Pt or other dangerous stuff ... Sending recognizable signals to other civilizations with those few tons of Plutonium we have on Earth isn't possible, I think. You won't find enough Pt in the whole solar system. And if you would dump so much of this stuff into the sun that there would be a possible success, this should affect the Sun's physics in a negative way, I guess. -- alderaan OP RKOpdp (RSTS/E) FB Mathematik/Informatik RKO Berlin Dieffenbachstrasze 60-61 1000 Berlin 61 ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V8 #353 *******************